A More Equitable HR: An Interview with Cierra Gross, founder and CEO of Caged Bird HR

Name: Cierra Gross (she/her)

Digital: website, twitter, Facebook, instagram, email

One of your favorite nonprofits: Sickle Cell Disease Association of America

So many reproductive health, rights, and justice organizations don't have HR, have an HR consultant that works with many organizations, or have an HR person that's in the pocket of the boss. We love that you're giving folks another vision of HR, one that centers people of color's experience in (often toxic) workplaces. Tell us about Caged Bird HR and what inspired you to start it.

At the end of 2021, I had just left a job after four months. It wasn’t the right fit and I was exhausted. So I took a few months to just rest. I knew that I could not rejoin the corporate world. The damage it had done to my mental health was so great I just knew if I wanted to maintain what little sanity I had left I had to do something else. One night I couldn’t sleep and I thought to myself I'm sure if someone had access to an independent HR person, they would appreciate just being able to hear a different opinion without risking their job. So I asked my friends if the service was available, would they use it and they all said absolutely. I’ve always been a helpful person with a big heart as is my whole family. I volunteer often and just am very giving of myself and my time. None of my friends were surprised that I would start a business with the sole purpose of helping others. So on January 17th, MLK Day, I threw a website up with a booking link and posted about it on my Instagram.  An hour later someone had booked an appointment and I knew then I had filled a real need in the community. A month later I registered the business and in September I hired my first employee. Since then we’ve grown and realized that this problem is a double-edged sword. If we want to make real impact we must both help employees and businesses that care to execute HR in a more equitable way. 

We really resonate with this concept you talk about a lot, the "hire to hostile pipeline." We hear about this all the time in the repro movement – how Black women and other women of color are hired and then punished/pushed out, especially by white women managers. Tell us how you came up with that concept, how it manifests, and what people can do about it.

The “Hire to Hostile Pipeline” is a summation of my own experience. I was hired into a large organization on the basis of coming into an already established team; I was to help elevate and take that team to the next level. The hiring manager told me that the infrastructure already existed and the task was to high-grade the existing program. Well, when I got there that wasn’t the case. I was the only person with a master’s degree and any HR experience under my belt. The foundation that they told me already existed wasn’t nearly as developed as they told me. It was a “global” process that completely ignored the continent of South America.  When I brought it to my manager's attention, I was instructed to fix it, as I’d been hired to do. It wasn’t long though until my white female coworkers started complaining to my manager about my communication style and soft skills. They were really just upset that this program that had been their pride and joy was actually half baked and I just so happened to be the one to expose it.

When I shared my experience with my Black girlfriends they all had similar stories. So my intent was to give this experience a name so that we can talk about it and be able to solve it. In reflecting on my experience I thought to myself, “I went from hired to hostile real quick.” And the rest is history.

We released a report last year all about salaries, benefits, and diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI)work in our field. Among many of our findings, one we're still thinking about constantly is that the VAST majority of participants (88%!) said that their workplaces engaged in some form of DEI work, but less than a quarter said it resulted in any measurable progress. White managers/CEOs keep commissioning the same reports, which have the same results, and not making any systems-level changes. How can employees really thrive in this kind of environment? How can people break through this cycle? 

Ultimately, this is an HR issue to solve. HR created it and HR needs to fix it, and that starts at the top.  I think individual employees should focus their efforts on where they can see measurable results. The issues that marginalized communities face are vast and reach far beyond the walls of any job or non-profit. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. So if they have a manager/team that cares about DEI they should focus their efforts there. If they have a community organization doing work in the community they should focus their efforts there. It can be exhausting fighting the machine so engage when you can and disengage when it’s become frustrating. It also helps to seek out employers that care about their employees. They do exist. Many of them are our clients. They are smaller companies run by women. Seek employers where you have to do less fighting for the right outcome.

A lot of people come to us asking how to know when enough is enough – when they should keep fighting for change at their organization, often risking their jobs in the process, and when they should make a plan to leave. How do you advise folks to think about this? 

We tell clients the most important thing is their mental health. There is not nor will there ever be anything more important than that. I mean we've had clients literally wave a bag full of their hair on the camera that’s fallen out due to stress and in the same breath tell us they want to fight their employer. At that point, engaging in an environment that has resulted in your hair falling out is not worth it. Our focus shifts from how you still show up to a complete focus on an exit strategy. Marginalized people, especially Black women, have been convinced that we have to endure. No matter how bad it is, we are strong and therefore have to deal with whatever harmful situation we’re in. Quitting is viewed as a sign of weakness and that's absolute nonsense.  If you left, most companies they would fill your role and keep it moving.  I encourage clients to prioritize themselves first and foremost.  Leaving a toxic environment is a sign of strength and self-love. And it’s totally ok.

We think a lot about how to hold organizational leaders accountable for harm they've perpetuated against employees of color. Often, in our movement, this has looked like calling out toxic, racist behavior publicly when internal conversations have failed over and over again. Despite these articles, it seems like nothing changes. What's your vision for holding managers accountable for racism in the workplace?

This is a real issue in the workplace because HR has positioned itself as a strategic partner to the business or organization. Which means that the organization comes before all else, essentially. The consequence of that is leaders are able to perpetuate harm unchecked because it's about business continuity.  At Caged Bird HR, we also help founders that care about their employees develop HR services and execute them in an equitable way. I think if we can increase equity in the workplace, diversity and inclusion will come.  Which is a complete shift in how HR operates today. Marginalized employees aren’t looking for a handout or preferential treatment. They want to know that if I engage in this HR process to protect myself, it will.

What's one thing you wish people knew about HR, and/or about their rights at work? 

I wish people knew that they had rights. That they have choices and more power than they think. A lot of clients come to us with this perspective that this is just the way it is and they want advice on how to suffer through it. Yes, HR is there to protect the company from risk. But that doesn’t mean you have no options or voice.

Given how much you must hear about what goes wrong at work, what keeps you going? Is there anything that's inspiring you?

Since leaving corporate America I have invested a lot in my self-care routine which includes working out, facials, massages, resting, and reading. I try to prioritize those things because sometimes the work can get heavy. What keeps me coming back to the work is that I know I’m helping people. Although the conversation may start in a negative space it ends in a positive one where people feel confident in their path forward and validated in their experiences. To me, that's what keeps me getting up every day and grinding to grow this business and help as many people as humanly possible. I believe this is world-changing work and I’m committed to it wholeheartedly.