Co-Directors in Action: A joint interview with All* Above All & Reproaction
You can follow Reproaction on twitter, facebook, and instagram, and All* Above All on twitter, facebook, or instagram.
Why did you choose co-directorship as the leadership model for your organization? What’s been rewarding about it? What’s been challenging?
Pamela J. Merritt, Co-Director of Reproaction (PJM): We had several hour-long conversations about everything from leadership style to movement vision to communication style prior to deciding to become Co-Directors. I think those conversations made the case for me, not because we agree on everything, but because we communicate so well with each other. I love having someone who I respect and trust to learn and get advice from. I also appreciate having someone who has been in this with me from day one to appreciate how far we’ve come and what we have built. We tackle issues upfront and right away, and that’s been a huge part of why this co-directorship has been a great experience for me.
Erin Matson, Co-Director of Reproaction (EM): We are an organization with strong expertise in direct action, and there is a history of direct action organizations ushering in transformative change under collaborative leadership. That was the most appealing thing to me about this model. It’s intensely rewarding because I’m confident that Pamela or I could, alone, lead a great organization. But with the two of us together, and our collaborative efforts, the whole is much greater than the sum of the parts. I think the success of Reproaction cannot be divided from the synergy of our partnership and the stronger perspectives and strategies that arise from our collective work. As for challenges, sometimes people get confused about who is responsible for what, but that is not very hard to resolve.
Silvia Henriquez, Co-Director of All* Above All (SH): Personally, I have been in a sole Executive Director (ED) role before and the sacrifice and loneliness that comes with that role was very challenging, and I was hoping to find a better more balanced model. The most rewarding aspect is having that thought partner and gut-checker who I can trust. The most challenging thing is ensuring that I am upholding our values of transparency, trust, and joint decision-making at all times. Sometimes things move very quickly and so I want to make sure that I am always representing what we agreed to in a fair and balanced manner internally and externally.
I will also add that I started as an ED in this movement at the age of 27. I am now 45. It will be almost 20 years in a leadership role. I have unfortunately few peers that I can trust and I think that is because I haven’t been in an organization where I am not ultimately responsible for the bottom line and supervising people since my 20s. This can be emotionally draining. I care deeply about abortion access work -- it is how I started my work over 20 years ago -- but being in a lonely “boss” role is not appealing to me and I think having a shared leadership model, while more challenging, pushes me to try to always be my best self and show up 100%.
Destiny Lopez, Co-Director of All* Above All (DL): Silvia and I have known each other since she started as ED at the National Latina Institute for Reproductive Health, when we were both in our late 20s. As I worked at various movement organizations during her tenure as ED, primarily in the reproductive rights space, we constantly found ways to collaborate so that we could build power with the Latinx community, among women of color, and within the reproductive justice movement. Throughout, we built trust and learned about each other’s strengths and learning edges as leaders. When she approached me to work with All*, first as a consultant, then as deputy director, and finally, co-director, it was a no-brainer to join her. I knew we shared a vision for unfettered abortion access for folks of color and that we both sought a work culture where we could show up as our whole selves: as advocates, mothers, women of color, Latinas, etc. The commitment to that culture and the trust we built over the years allowed us to be true thought partners and to lead in a way that complements each of our strengths and balance those learning edges.
How do you balance leadership between two people? How do you decide who takes on what responsibilities? What about differences in management or decision-making styles? How does that shake out?
EM: Each member of our team, including the Co-Directors, have clearly defined roles for ourselves that are committed to on paper — these are not job descriptions, but additional documentation of our function, responsibilities, and necessary attributes of how we work that we are accountable to every day. We also have clear goals that are updated annually. As Co-Directors we review our progress toward our individual goals with one another during quarterly retreats. We are accountable to performance and one another. Sure, we have some working styles that are different. But we strive to respect those differences rather than work toward uniformity in style.
PJM: Communication and clearly defined roles and goals are critical pieces. We had extensive dialogue about management style, communication style, pet peeves, and strengths prior to agreeing to a co-leadership model. But the most important element is courageous communication, active listening, and respect. We don’t let things linger or fester, and we are very intentional about exchanging clear and respectful communication.
SH: We have an executive coach who helps us when we are grappling with questions/tensions or changes. We both have our differences in management styles and that is part of why our model works. We make all decisions together and we attempt a united front externally and internally.
We have also shifted what we are each responsible for when one or both of us feels stuck, unchallenged or on the verge of burnout. Changing up the different aspects of our work keeps it interesting and also ensures a level of accountability.
DL: I’d echo much of what Silvia said above and add that we both have clear areas of expertise and skills that are uniquely our own, complement each other’s well, and generally align with what the campaign needs at any given moment, which makes the distribution of roles much easier. That being said, giving each other the flexibility to try on something new when we switch up roles helps keep the work and the role sustainable. I also can’t emphasize enough how important having complementary management, leadership and decision-making styles is. I don’t think this model works if you don’t have that awareness and balance of styles – having too much of one style or another could be too intense for each other, our staff and partners.
What misconceptions have you encountered within the reproductive health, rights, and justice movements about co-directorship? Anything in particular that surprised you?
EM: Many people who ask me about the co-director model appear to be most interested in the job-sharing aspect. It’s true that being a co-director can improve upon the ‘it’s all on me’ aspect of being an executive director; the work can be shared. But I would argue the true benefits of the model is much more than worksharing. Collaborative leadership is about having more perspectives and building superior strategies to win. I believe deeply in the power of collaborative leadership — and multi-racial collaborative leadership — and the potential it offers to the progressive movement to reimagine what power looks like and how it is expressed.
PJM: I totally agree with Erin. We began our co-leadership using a shared document that we used to answer questions and identify areas we wanted to explore prior to making a decision on whether or not to work together. We’ve been collaborative from day one, including the strategic planning process, and it has been an amazing experience.
SH: I think people at times have tried to divide us or lifted one leader while not acknowledging both our efforts.
DL: Totally agree with that statement. Particularly because we have established very clear internal versus external roles, people can forget to acknowledge that this is a team effort.
I also think it is sometimes challenging for people to have both of us at leadership tables when most other orgs are represented by a single leader. Folks don’t want us to have an outsized voice but I do think we are good about divvying up leadership meetings AND balancing out our voices when in spaces together.
What advice would you give others considering a co-directorship model?
EM: The co-directorship model is a powerful way to expand the leadership capabilities of your organization, but it’s not for everyone and probably won’t work if imposed on two people by others, such as a board of directors arranging a marriage. It has to be wanted by the leaders themselves. Pamela and I decided to give Reproaction a go only after having seven hour-long conversations with pre-set questions about ourselves, our leadership styles, our hopes for our work specifically to increase access to abortion and advance reproductive justice, and our hopes for the movement. We built this organization on a foundation of trust between ourselves and we continue to work intentionally to foster that trust. After that, building a strategic plan in partnership -- we literally do it word for word over the phone -- and clearly defining roles and responsibilities means that we’re still able to be nimble, move quickly, and execute our vision.
PJM: Some people think co-directorship is a constant tug-of-war, and that hasn’t been my experience nor do I think that would be successful or fulfilling. It is critical that both leaders practice clear and courageous communication, and each should also have clearly defined roles and responsibilities.
SH: The decision needs to be personal and professional. But the relationship needs to have started on a professional level not a personal one. You can’t be matched, you have to choose each other. Get to know each other before you land on this model.
DL: Definitely agree that you have to choose each other. Having a history of work together helps immensely – you just learn so much about a person’s leadership style, their quirks, their way of being and doing in the world by being in the work with them. Your work lives will be deeply interconnected in this model so having this understanding will prove critical both as you decide whether this is the right model (and with whom) and how to make it successful.
What’s a professional development training you took that you’d recommend to others?
PJM: I highly recommend the Rockwood Leadership Institute’s Art of Leadership training. I participated as a Rockwood Reproductive Health, Rights, and Justice fellow in 2017, and it truly transformed how I approach my leadership and my role in the movement. This training was helpful in helping me identify my vision and ways to balance passion with personal ecology.
EM: +1 to Rockwood’s Art of Leadership; I recently started my fellowship as a Rockwood Reproductive Health, Rights, and Justice fellow in 2019 and I’m still processing what I’ve learned from Art of Leadership. Additionally, The Management Center is a wealth of information and I enjoyed their “Managing to Change the World” training. I appreciate that they keep materials open-source on their website, from check-in templates to management exercises on giving feedback. Check it out!
DL: Not a training, per se, but I’ve done Rockwood (both Art of Leadership and the RHRJ cohort) and value both the act of taking extended time for leadership development in a beautiful space and some of the tools it offered around responding to triggers and courageous conversations.
How many browser tabs do you have open at once, on average?
PJM: I have 72 browser tabs spread across 4 windows. I set up separate windows for the tasks associated with my role as co-director, and then I have the appropriate tabs open within that task’s window. Basically, I set this system up to match how I prefer to engage with my work.
EM: I like a clean desk, and I operate the same way with my desktop. There are nine browser tabs I regularly keep open for communications and managing my workflow, and after I finish using other “topical” screens related to issues I’m working on, I close them out so I can create space for new items to take my attention.
SH: Two.
DL: Too. Many. To. Count.
Tell us about the last really good book you read.
EM: I just read She Said by Jodi Kantor and Megan Twohey about the reporting they did for The New York Times to break the Harvey Weinstein story, and I’m blown away by the bravery of the women who have come forward and the work it took to get there. I believe each time a woman takes a deep breath and shares her story it is a radical act. #MeToo shows the power of our voices and stories to create change.
PJM: I just finished Say Nothing by Patrick Radden Keefe about murder and memory in Northern Ireland. I was hooked from the first page, and it never let me go. I spent over an hour in my favorite independently-owned feminist bookstore, Left Bank Books, before I settled on this book for my holiday reading. It was a rare pleasure to be able to sit in silence and allow myself to be drawn into a brilliantly written piece of work.
SH: Little Fires Everywhere by Celeste Ng.
DL: Claudia Rankine’s Citizen: An American Lyric, a book of poetry, was published in 2014 but just came to my attention in the last couple of years and its impact has lived with me more than any recent book I’ve read. It is powerful on so many levels: for its depiction of the stark realities of living in black bodies in this country; for her unique, lyrical approach to poetry and prose; and, for its juxtaposition of art and photography throughout to deepen and illustrate meaning.
What podcast are you into right now?
PJM: I’m a true crime buff, so my current favorite podcast is Atlanta Monster. I have some issues with it, but for me that’s part of the process when digesting true crime content. The podcast tested my memory, and I also learned new information.
EM: I’m not much of a podcaster. I only listen to specific episodes that are relevant to me. However I have recently been sucked into the world of audiobooks. I’m listening to A Warning by Anonymous now. As with anything that looks inside the Trump administration and the erosion of our democratic norms to the benefit of an authoritarian leader, it’s disturbing, but we can’t look away.
DL: My team knows I am a podcast fiend. Just finished Dolly Parton’s America, which was great in its gender analysis and for the music, but lacking in really pushing an analysis around race. And it is on hiatus now, but my favorite pod is Still Processing.
Who inside the reproductive health, rights, and justice movement inspires you and why? Who outside the movement?
SH: I am always inspired by people who have abortions. I know it is a very personal decision and yet is the most empowering decision one can make so it continues to inspire me and want to continue working on this issue.
DL: Ditto, and those who support people seeking abortion care. Outside of the movement, I’ve been really inspired by adrienne maree brown and her book, emergent strategy. I feel like our movement is in desperate need of what she has to offer and say on how we approach building and strategizing together.
EM: I’m inspired by activists on the front lines, whether that’s abortion storytellers, people keeping the peace as abortion clinic escorts on a Saturday morning, or volunteers helping abortion funds manage their finances. There are so many people who do social justice work not for notoriety or credit or fame, but to be a part of something bigger and to leave the world a little better than they found it. I love them.
PJM: I’m inspired by volunteers and activists, the people I meet every day who are passionate and brave. My life is also enriched by regular dialogue with movement elders who are always so generous with their advice and constructive in their criticism. Time with them feeds my soul and helps me keep things in perspective.